The Truth About Sweeteners, Seed Oils, and Building Real Strength | Nick Barringer, PhD

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 00:00

Are sweeteners quietly damaging your DNA? Is ozempic slowly killing your parents? And why are millions of people suddenly terrified of seed oils, food dyes and even carrots? These aren't fringe theories anymore. These are the viral headlines shaping how we eat, how we think about health and how we live, and yet very few people are asking, What does a science actually say? I'll let you in on a little secret. Nutrition is dangerously oversimplified. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr Nick Beringer, Army Ranger performance nutrition expert and one of the most respected minds in overall health to break down controversial, high stakes questions dominating today's nutrition landscape. It's probably

Nick Barringer: 00:49

not great for you. Now, in a paper in 2023 the Journal of toxicology, looked at sucralose, and they found it converts to sucralose six acetate, which is genotoxic, it can damage DNA cells. We're

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 01:04

not here to follow the hype. We're here to challenge assumptions, unpack the evidence, and figure out what's really at risk when it comes to your health and longevity. If you want clarity in a sea of chaos, this episode can be your filter. Dr Nick Beringer, nutritional physiologist, which I love, that term. You are a great friend, and I'm going to read a little bit about you, which I think that everyone's going to be quite impressed. I know that I am. You are you previously served as the director of the US military Baylor University graduate program in nutrition. You also served as an assistant professor at the US Military Academy at West Point. Really slum in it. You were the first active duty dietician to graduate, to graduate from the US Army Ranger School. Wow. And you served with a 75th Ranger Regiment. Well done. One more thing, not trying to embarrass you at all, but you got your degree in dietetics from the University of Georgia, and your doctorate in kinesiology from Texas a&m. You are an incredible speaker and a wealth of knowledge. And what I love about you is, not only do you research and publish, but you have very practical experience. So welcome to the show. Thank

Nick Barringer: 02:39

you so much. That's a great introduction. I'm hoping I can live up to it. Oh, you

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 02:43

will. You already have you are, I would say you are the only elite military dietician that exists. Is that fair to say? Maybe there's been three others in their entirety.

Nick Barringer: 02:53

I mean, there's definitely now, there has, there has been others, and there's and there's others out there, and there's great dietitians working in special operations,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 03:01

yes. So actually, you know, that's right, I the SOCOM has their own team of dieticians. So actually, shout out to you guys.

Nick Barringer: 03:09

Yes. Christy Logan, yes, the bond, yes,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 03:12

Christy, we gotta get you back on. Oh, you haven't been on, but you should be. She should

Nick Barringer: 03:16

be. No, brilliant. So, so yeah, a lot of great dietitians working in special operations, and I tip my hat to him. Yes, I,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 03:24

I suppose I should thank you for your service, and I'll do that now, and everyone else should as well. So thank you. Why did I want you on the show? Well, there's a lot of trending information right now. You and I were sitting down before laughing about how we love our Celsius. I remember when I would visit Shane on post, and it was like, rip it. Yes, rip it Celsius. What else did they have? They have the definitely uncrustables. Yeah, they have a whole host of items in the military, like the little shop as, Oh yes, the shop, yes. But where I really wanted to start with sucralose, also known as Splenda. And I was looking at this paper. This is an open access paper in Nature, and it's the title of the paper is the dietary sweetener sucralose is a negative modulator of T cell mediated responses. And I have to say, I love sucralose and our doctor, Dr Lisa hunt, who's also my doctor, is probably cringing at this, because it is an artificial sweetener and it is calorie free. Sugar free, tastes amazing, and I'm pretty sure that it's damaging my DNA.

Nick Barringer: 04:39

Yes, sadly, that is the case, because I'm with you. I love sucrose. I was telling a story about a friend of mine who you know was, was down on it 10 years ago, and I was like, no, no, there's, there's no worries. There's no concerns. What did he say it was? It was ant poison. Shout out to Martin Rooney, so now in a paper in 2023 the. Journal of toxicology looked at sucralose, and they found it converts to sucralose six acetate, which is genotoxic. It can damage DNA cells. And it, you know, at a very small dose, can do that. And so that is a concern. So, you know, one concern is, as the products get processed, could some of that be getting converted and actually in the manufacturing process. But there's also a paper using animal models that have shown in the gut some bacteria can convert it up to 10% of the sucralose you take in can get converted to that sucralose six acetate, which is no bueno. That's

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 05:36

not good. And so sucralose is also Splenda, right? And you can it's readily available on tables, and it's about 600 times sweeter, yes, than sucrose. Would you think? Or would you consider it safe in very small amounts? I mean, I'm looking here. It says that the consumption can be detected with a consumption of 250 milligrams of sucralose. Again, I don't know what the average amount is in a drink of, say, like Celsius, which, by the way, you and I've been to your house and I you have a lot

Nick Barringer: 06:11

of you're gonna tell me, yes, my wife bought that. She bought that Celsius. Oh, Catherine.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 06:15

But to be clear, what is the data in humans versus animals?

Nick Barringer: 06:23

Yeah. So in the paper, the toxicology paper, in particular, they were talking about the microgram level. I am not being I can't pull it off the top of my head of like, what that specific dose, but it was at the microgram level. So you would exceed that through probably most people consuming their beverages. With that being said, obviously it ended with more research needs to be done if you're using sucralose to replace sweetened beverages for weight loss. At this point, I wouldn't say that's a bad practice, but it's definitely something to consider, and I wouldn't be consuming, you know, diet beverages. Willy nilly. Do

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 07:04

you happen to know what else? What else contains sucralose? Is it a Diet Coke situation?

Nick Barringer: 07:09

I know Coke Zero, right? Uses sucralose. I know a few of the other beverages. I don't drink a lot of sodas, thankfully. So, I would have to look at the label, but, but that would be something to consider, although it seems like people are starting to use more like stevia, and I am seeing more like monk fruit on labels. You

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 07:32

know, I think that monk fruit and stevia are both great choices, but I will say, unless it's done well, they seem to have an aftertaste, if you were to prioritize artificial sweeteners, sucralose is out for you. I gotta let your wife know Celsius is gone, but you're okay with monk fruit and stevia, yes. What about aspartame?

Nick Barringer: 07:54

Aspartame is another one of those that it's it's probably not great. I think it's for the World Health Organization classifies it as a possible carcinogens, right, right? Is it? Yeah, the category like to be. So again, you know, if you're somebody trying to lose weight, because I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? Like if, if you have an individual who's drinking a bunch of regular soda, and they're really struggling to lose weight, and the diet soda is kind of their gateway to help them lose that weight. As of right now, I wouldn't say, Oh, don't do that, but if you can reduce your diet soda intake, I think you should probably do it, especially when it comes to, sadly, sucralose and aspartame.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 08:40

And I am looking@fda.gov and this is the FDA response to an external safety review of aspartame. And there is something called the it's the IARC, and it's the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and I will say we have to be really careful about how we view some of these big committees in these international agencies, because the IARC also classified red meat as our carcinogen. And if you were to look at David kerfeld response to that, who was actually on the committee, they threw out randomized control trials. They used epidemiology, and there were things that were really concerning to almost prove a bias, which is unfortunate. And, you know, I don't know if anyone has biases towards aspartame, probably not, and but it's just interesting if we're looking at two sides of the story. So it says that the FDA disagrees with the iarcs conclusion that these studies support classifying aspartame as a parcel as a possible carcinogen to humans. And again, I think that there's a lot that we know and a lot that we don't know, but certainly Whole Foods is best. But you know, I. Someone who does have some aspartame, I'm sure gum,

Nick Barringer: 10:03

yes, yeah, or xylitol, is probably more of what I get from so

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 10:09

you make better choices than I do. No, I'm not saying you should. Andrew, probably, it's probably good for the oral microbiome. Yeah, when you were looking at the artificial sweeteners like sucralose, did you find something that was actually more surprising? For example, what am I getting at something that you weren't expecting? Perhaps its influence on the gut microbiome, perhaps its influence on immunity. Was there anything that kind of stuck out to you as people are just trying to make decisions?

Nick Barringer: 10:39

Well, the gut microbiome. I kind of knew that I'd seen that research, the DNA damage and the leaky gut. I was that's what's concerning, and that was what was more recent in the 2023 paper. So again, it does give me pause. It makes me okay. Let's reconsider it and look at it. I don't want to, you know, discourage though, people who are using Dias sodas is a way to lose weight, right? Is a way to control their, their, you know, caloric intake, because I still think that seems to be a net positive. But as of right now, yeah, we should definitely investigate the artificial sweeteners. You know, more, more research needs to be done to look at it, to be like, Hey, is it, you know, really good for us long term. And then to your point of, you know, what's that dose look like? You know, is it? Is it one Celsius a day, half a Celsius a day? Or, you know, you know? Or what is that, right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 11:35

What about food dyes, like red dye, number 40, yellow, number five, are these harmful or overhyped?

Nick Barringer: 11:42

That's another one that they're probably not the best, particularly when you look at the research, like with children and like hyperactivity and ADHD, you know, I've, I taught my daughter to read the labels, and she'll, I did, yeah, so she'll see it. She'll be like, Daddy, this has red 40 in it, you know, in the dyes, I think are an easier stance to take on, because you don't really need them. That's a great point. You don't, yeah, it's not like I'm craving a soda and so now I need, you know, I want to get scratch that itch, but I want to get it calorie free, kind of like with the artificial sweeteners. I feel like you don't need the dyes in your life. So if you can get, you know, a beet based dye product, why not go that route? And so that's, that's how we do it in the Beringer

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 12:30

household. I love that. That's just practical advice. And I will say that red dye number 40, it looks like it's made from petroleum. And again, it's a synthetic color additive used in foods and beverages to give it a cherry red color the it looks like it is the Food and Drug Cosmetic Act prohibits the FDA from approving a color additive that is ingested if it causes cancer in animals or humans when ingested, you Know. And then you look at some of the further data and the dye, again, this is also depending on the dose. It seems to cause cancer in rats. I guess this was from 30 years ago, but they the FDA did make a decision to revoke the authorization of use, and this was from a petition in 2022 I suppose. The question is, why does it take so long to remove from our food system science?

13:29

I mean, you, you've done studies. You know how long they

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 13:32

take forever, and there's no guarantee that it comes out. Yeah.

Nick Barringer: 13:35

I mean, the IRB process alone, right? And then, you know, to recruit participants, and they get it and then, okay, now you've published, you know, your findings. Now somebody else needs to repeat the study, etc, so it just, it takes time. You

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 13:49

know, do we know? Why have you looked at the data in terms of hyperactivity in the dyes?

Nick Barringer: 13:55

I have not dug deep on that one? Yeah, I'm curious, like, what, what it's doing to, like, a child neurologically, whether it's interfering with some of that signaling that that I can't speak to intelligently,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 14:08

it looks like from what I'm reading, and this, this is on yellow dye number five, and there are certain children that might be more sensitive to these dyes than others, which would make sense. I'm sure with sucralose that individuals that have a very robust microbiome, they probably can tolerate it without any issues. But for those that are sensitive, it looks like from the data, it can cause irritability, maybe restlessness or sleep disturbances. And you know, I really like what you said, that if you don't have to use food dyes right now, we don't have to, why would we? Yeah, exactly. Are you ready for another major bomb? I am ready. I don't know. Are seed oils? Oh, canola and soybean oil toxic? And how do you as someone. Who is a nutritional physiologist, who has worked with some of the highest performing individuals, begin to pick away at what is data and what is hype

Nick Barringer: 15:11

I have yet to find. And we, you know, we've talked about this, right, like that smoking gun study, that they are this terrible, horrible thing. With that being said, there are some papers that show, you know, especially when they get oxidized at high heat, that that can be problematic. And you know, we get so much Omega six in our diet already that, you know, an excess of it could also might not be optimal. There are papers, you know, a lot of times that link Omega six to inflammation, but there was one study that looked at it and they didn't see any, you know, movement and C reactive protein or anything like that when you took in more omega sixes. So, so kind of still, you know, to be determined. But I would say a practical application here would be, you know, there's, there's probably some better options out there. I love avocado oil, you know, use that as pretty heat stable. If I'm going to put something on my salads, rather than a coconola or soy bean oil, I'm going to use olive oil. But, you know, if that's what you have, then that is, but I would just say there's some better options even, you know, coconut oil is is more, even though it's higher in saturated fat, there are papers that show even elevated coconut oil intake doesn't affect your your LDL, like other saturated fats. So, you know, I would say there's other options that I would utilize over seed oils, but I won't say, you know, that they're inherently poisonous. I

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 16:42

think it's a really important point. I, you know, we had Kevin Mackey on, who is the former president of the lipid Association. Ask him, I asked him, and really looking at the data, and he's published a handful of really great articles on this, that the data wasn't there to support that the seed oils and canola oil and soybean oils, these polyunsaturated oils, were inherently bad, which I think is surprising. Again, they are unnatural. They're processed. I absolutely agree with what you're saying in terms of this high heat processing, our consumption of them have increased exponentially over the last 30 years or so. Is it really this ratio of omega three to omega six fatty acids in our diet that's driving inflammation? And also, what about the foods that these seed oils are in? Possibly, baked goods, all these other processed type foods.

Nick Barringer: 17:45

Yeah, you're definitely getting a lot of it in there. And so, so any way that you could reduce the consumption of omega six and then obviously increase the consumption Omega three, I'd say it's gonna, you know, point your your health in the right direction. I'm

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 18:02

always looking for easy, meaningful ways to support my health, especially gut health, since, of course, that's where good health starts. Well, that and muscle. That's why I've added Amro colostrum to my iced coffee. It's a whole food supplement packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients, like protective antibodies, prebiotics and peptides that help strengthen immunity, support digestion and optimize performance. Amra uses a unique technology to preserve these nutrients in their purest, most bioavailable form, which is why it stands out from anything else I've seen on the market. I also love that they are third party tested, so you can trust everything that's listed is actually in the product. Go to try a R, M, R, a.com/dr lion, or use the code Dr lion at checkout. But

Nick Barringer: 19:00

again, I would never say that, you know, seed oils are poisonous, or, you know, kind of like you might see on the internet.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 19:07

I would also really agree with you on that, and I think that the data just doesn't support that. In the Beringer household. Do you guys happen to have canola oil, or any of those other high heat cooking oils. We

Nick Barringer: 19:21

have, well, you've seen our we have avocado. Is what I use. I use mostly avocado. I use butter. Butter is delicious, you know, it does pretty well in heat. And then, you know, putting on the salads, a lot of olive oil, if

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 19:38

someone was going to use these seed oils. And how would you say, what are some other foods that would be great for increasing the intake of Omega three,

Nick Barringer: 19:48

in terms of omega three? Oh, food, yeah. I mean, obviously fish, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean any, any sort of fish you can get in the diet. I love sardines. And, you know, I do a lot of new like nutrition. Box. And I always tell people this. I'm like, Look, sardines are great. They're small, non predatory fish, so very, very low in mercury, right? You don't have to worry about the heavy metals with them. High dose of omega threes. They travel well, you can throw them in your bag and those little cans. And trust me, everybody listening to me right now, try this. Get on an airplane, open up a can of sardines. You always make a friend every time.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 20:22

First of all, you should not be allowed to fly if you are opening up the can of sardines and nobody wants to sit next to you, but

20:31

you always make a friend. I quote me on that questionable,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 20:33

not a nice friend. They probably are really. They're done with it. But I I love what you're saying. You're making a practical statement. And we do travel with sardines. I can't say I eat them. My kids love them. You've never opened up on a plane court, no, just one time, no time. Still allowed to fly. But I think it's a great source of protein, and also, you can get calcium, omegas. And again, you don't worry about heavy metals, which, you know, there is a lot of discussion about heavy metals and protein powders. Yes, should we worry about that?

Nick Barringer: 21:08

I think so. 100% like, you know, especially was, it was the plant proteins that were the highest, and some of them that were classified as organic. So you should know where everything you put in your body comes from. So if you're going to take whey protein or you're going to take a plant protein, you should be aware of what that company's practices are. Is it, you know, NSF certified safer sport. I like to use that with with myself and my athletes, so make sure that it's tested and it's heavy metal free. Why

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 21:44

do you think there were more heavy metals found in plant based proteins? Because

Nick Barringer: 21:48

the soil, wherever you're sourcing those plants from, whatever the practices are in that country, you're going to get more heavy metals there was, at one point, when I was at the US Army Research Institute Environmental Medicine, we were looking at honey like you. Honey, like, using local honey, where soldiers were to possibly, you know, reduce the effect of some allergies. And that was the other thing we found is like, same, same thing with honey in those, you know, certain countries that maybe don't have the strictest codes in terms of what happens to those metals from plant processing. The honey had a lot higher content of heavy metals. You

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 22:24

know, that's not surprising. I don't know if you know this about me, but I use honey all the time. So I use something called manicural Honey. They test have you had it? It's amazing. So they test it. They test it for contaminants, which would make a lot of sense, because you're eating something that's highly concentrated. You know, I do worry about plant proteins. They haven't been around in, you know, for human consumption for a long period of time, you're consolidating a ton of bioactive ingredients from the pea protein, not just the protein, but there are other, again, bioactive ingredients, just like with whey, right? Whey Protein has lacto albumin, lactoferrin. These are other compounds that are positive for the immune system and various other processes in the body. I don't know. And again, is whey process? It is, but it comes off of a practice that we've been utilizing, which is cheese forever, but these plant based protein powders are really manufactured, and we're concentrating a form of protein that we would not find in nature at all. I

Nick Barringer: 23:34

had never thought about that, but no, that's a great point. And you know, for me too, again, I'm because I have no issues consuming animal products, but just the flavor profile I find in the plant protein, because I've tried them, it's just, you know, it's always, it's always chalky. I can't get away from that

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 23:52

when your clients or where, when you're working with a military operator or CEO or someone like that, and they can't tolerate whey protein, whether it's isolate or a concentrate, and they don't like the flavor of a plant based protein. Is there something else that you suggest for them to do?

Nick Barringer: 24:16

I have not had that situation, thankfully, with that. I mean, then it would be, you know, some sort of, maybe we would go with a protein snack. In terms of, there are a lot of different, for lack of better description, like, you know, meat sticks that

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 24:32

I know, a couple of those, yeah, right, that that are shout out to my husband, yeah, a lot of

Nick Barringer: 24:38

poor shade, you know, a lot of you know dehydrated like meat products. I know there's even, like, a salmon jerky that company makes. And so I find a lot of those simple solutions and stuff they can kind of keep at their desk. But luckily, I haven't had an issue where anybody you know couldn't consume whey protein.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 24:56

Well, for our patients that you. Cannot consume whey protein. We typically use some kind of animal blend. There's egg white protein, oh, yeah, there's animal based. So they'll have a beef isolate, which is obviously collagen is not a complete protein. But there's, you know, egg white protein. There's other animal source protein powders that are they don't taste weird because it sounds gross. Yeah, they they're amazing, and they're really just easy to consume. So if you're listening and you're thinking, I can't use a whey protein. I don't like a rice pea blend or a pea or a hemp there are animal based protein powders out there. Yep, that can be totally usable. Speaking of eggs and diet, what are your thoughts on the best diet for, let's just say, for building and maintaining muscle, someone who is 40 years plus,

Nick Barringer: 25:53

I know someone. Yes, I look at that person in the mirror every day I see I see that individual, and you go,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 25:59

Gosh, I am so good looking.

Nick Barringer: 26:02

No, I mean, you know, this isn't going to be, probably anything earth shattering, right? It's, it's, I try to eat, you know, lean, mostly sources of protein, which would be what so I'm getting, you know, I love, I love bison, I love out. It's one of the great things about living in Texas. I think, you know, you go to the grocery store, we can get venison, we can get elk, we can get bison, pretty, pretty easily. So I have those. I might even made that one time on the grill. I don't know what you made was pizza. Pizza. Okay, I did. I made, I made pizza, all right. So by the way,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 26:38

listeners, watchers. Nick Beringer again, military, family, very, very good friend of ours, and our kids are close to the same age. We just all have a blast, which makes things even more

Nick Barringer: 26:51

fun. Yeah, yeah. So I guess I made pizza that Tom but normally when I burnt

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 26:55

pizza, it was burnt. It was a little overdone. Oh, yeah,

Nick Barringer: 26:58

yeah. That was okay. That wasn't the best representation. I was learning a new grill, but, but otherwise, yeah, you know, bison, venison, I like that. You know, grass fed beef, steak, eggs, and then fish, a lot of a lot of salmon. And then, you know, vegetables,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 27:17

that's it. What about carbs? Yeah,

Nick Barringer: 27:20

some, some fruit, rice, sourdough bread. I like sourdough bread. A lot of fermented stuff at your household. We do. We do that's, that's another one. I like my sauerkraut. My wife's half Korean, so we have kimchi. I like, you know, the fermented like, pickles and olives. So, you know, I do get a lot of that in, and then yogurts as well.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 27:45

When you are thinking about designing a diet for someone, again, just picking someone about building or maintaining muscle over the age of 40, just arbitrarily pick that number. How do you think about how much protein they should have? How do you balance the carbohydrates to support muscle health? What are some of the thoughts and and practices that you tell people to follow?

Nick Barringer: 28:09

Well, for, you know, for the protein, I think we're on the same sheet of music, like the whole, you know, gram per about pound of ideal body weight, like I'm going around there, you know, protein is the focus I build around. Also fiber, trying to get people, you know, to get 35 grams of fiber, 40 grams of fiber.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 28:28

You know what? The average American intake is probably less than 20. I mean, I'm sure I know that I was supposed to have 25 grams per 2000 calorie diet. But I think fiber intake is, is very sub optimal. Oh, yes, yeah, in the American diet,

Nick Barringer: 28:45

I probably, probably, you know, more sub optimal than protein, right? You

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 28:50

know what? That's absolutely right. I was looking at the, have you ever seen the Healthy Eating index? Yes, you have. The Healthy Eating index is, I believe it's part of the dietary guidelines, or it's in, you know, it's kind of under the umbrella. And the Healthy Eating index defines what we should have and where we're at. And I was recently looking at the data because I was giving a talk and nine it was something like 95% of Americans are not eating enough fruits and vegetables. Oh, yeah, that is and to answer your protein question, 45% of individuals were below the Healthy Eating index recommendation for dietary protein. And I'm going to point something else out. The Healthy Eating index, the protein is higher than the RDA. It's not point eight grams per kg. Oh, wow. And there's this constant flurry of people saying that we're eating too much protein. The data doesn't support that. 45% or below that recommendation for the Healthy Eating index.

Nick Barringer: 29:52

No, I could see that. And so, I mean, that's why, like, I build, you know, my. My meal plan for people like around, like protein and then, and then fiber as well, and then with carbohydrates. Again, I think we have a similar stance in that. I'm like,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 30:09

more is better now, more is better, especially

Nick Barringer: 30:12

again, is that is that individual over the age of 40? I am I have to earn my carbohydrates now, more than ever, whereas, you know Nick at 2025, I didn't really think about that as much, but you know, as you get older, I think you do, you have to respect carbohydrates, otherwise you're gonna end up with type two diabetes, right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 30:34

Yes, and right. Now, what I'm hearing you say is your protein is close to one gram per pound target body weight. It's interesting, I always use the term ideal body weight, and as I'm thinking about it, there is a formula for ideal body weight, but you and I are not talking about that. We're talking about your personal ideal body weight. You could swap that out for target body weight. Yes, it is where you feel your best. It's simply. It's as simple as that. And when you are working with someone and thinking about how to optimize their body composition, because let's face it, over the age of 40, people seem to gain weight. It's not good luck. It's not good luck. And if we care about health and we have to take action, and we really have to design a mindful nutrition plan that shouldn't be over complicated, one gram per pound target body weight, the RDA sets our carbohydrates at 130 grams per day. Which have you looked at the data? The obligatory carbohydrate use in the body for glucose is 80 grams a day, wow. And the RDA is set at 130 to make up for the standard deviation of you know, to cover everybody but the dietary guidelines. Now, this is going to get a little word salady and kind of number heavy. But I want you guys who are listening to really think about this, because the recommendations that we're hearing and what it's set as if the body requires 80 grams of carbs, say, for brain, red blood cells, number one, carbohydrates are not essential. Your body can make it through gluconeogenesis, yes, through protein that you eat, also carbohydrate disposal. Let's talk about this for one second, because I've done all the numbers with myself and my colleague, Dr Donald layman. And for a sedentary muscle, the glucose disposal over a two hour period for sedentary individual, is not above 40 grams of carbohydrates, wow. Meaning, if you are not training and you haven't worked out, you are committing carbicide. Your body cannot dispose of more than 40 grams in a two hour period. Anything above that begins to distort metabolism, and you stored as fat. But the dietary guidelines, their percentage of carbohydrate ingestion for a 2000 calorie person is set at 45 to 55 Yeah, so a 45 to 65 grams of carbs. So on the low end, it's 225 grams of carbs a day. That's an additional, what, three hours of exercise over the 130 grams. You're a pretty fit person. Are you doing that kind of exercise? No,

Nick Barringer: 33:29

not always. Well, you know, chasing the two year old is surprisingly but, but, yeah, no. I mean, Axel

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 33:35

is not that fast, my friend, you haven't seen him lately. He's great, but,

Nick Barringer: 33:39

but, no, I mean, wow, that that's, there lies the problem, right? About every, every snack, you know, I'm trying to think of like, what snack bar, or, you know, or general, you know, a bag of chips, right? You're gonna probably exceed 3040, grams, yeah, pretty, pretty easily, right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 34:00

And it just, you know, again, I think that you and I have the same mission, which is, how do we help people get to their healthiest version? And with all the information out there, and you've got the RDA, which is recommended dietary allowance, and then you have the dietary guidelines, we're all trying to make sense of what individuals should have, especially as we get older, when you're young, you're you're very anabolic. You have lots of hormones. Your son, Axel, could probably look at a little piece of chicken, and he's already he's anabolic. He's growing. But for us, we have to, I look great for 25 for us, we have to go ahead and you can laugh at that hilarious. But no, frankly, we have to learn to adjust our nutrition and kind of tune out the noise. Because if we go back to the fundamentals, and we just look at the science, the minimum, you know, the RDA is 130 grams. That's above what we need, especially if we are inactive, and then the dietary guidelines, we are fighting an obesity epidemic. Is diabetes, cardiovascular disease, but the carbohydrate recommendations and what we're willing to tolerate is absolutely astronomical. And from a metabolic standpoint, we are not balancing our food with our muscle needs. And I think that that's where the real problem is, and our guidelines are at 45 to 65% of our calories should be coming from carbohydrates.

Nick Barringer: 35:24

Well, and I think part of that is, when you look at those guidelines here, you're saying like carbohydrates. It's kind of like if you just say red meat, are we talking about 7030 hamburgers? Are we talking about elk? When we talk about carbohydrates, are we talking about a bag of chips? Are we talking about an apple and a banana? Creep, right? So, so I also think that's that that's in there to be considered as well. You know, because, because fiber is gonna what slow that that rate of glucose into the bloodstream. But, but, yeah, no. I mean, either way, yeah, we're probably overdoing it. A lot of people are overdoing it or carbohydrates just just based on that,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 36:05

just based on that alone. And we already know that 50% of the population isn't moving, yeah. And there's no such thing as a healthy, sedentary individual, because that's a disease state in and of itself. So when you think about carbohydrate dosing, do you think about carbohydrate dosing for your CEOs or people that you're working with, again, the austere environment of a military operator, I think the biggest challenge that we're dealing with, and I had Jess Gwen on, yes, she's amazing. Shout out to her. We did an episode. We should link to that up here. You guys can check that out. And the challenge with the military operator, right in these austere environments, as tactical individuals, you can't even get them to consume enough because they are moving so much. So it's at one extreme to another. But from a carbohydrate standpoint, do you think if someone is not training and they are sitting at their desk, how do you dose carbohydrates throughout the day? So you start with one gram per pound of target body weight, which, you know, anyone can calculate that the carbohydrate. How do you begin to teach people that

Nick Barringer: 37:15

I usually it's simple. Kind of, look at it like a plate I use, kind of the, you know, put a plate in front of them. And if they're not that active, half their plate is, you know, a non, really, you know, heavy carbohydrate, like vegetable, like, I take peas, potatoes, corn, I put those in, like, the kind of the carbohydrate category I put, you know, a quarter is a carbohydrate and a quarter is a protein, and then we go from there and structure and kind of like, okay, so, you know, you can put half your plate, your broccoli, your carrots, your cauliflower, your kale, you know, your other leafy greens. You can put your starch, your potatoes, your rice, you know, here, and then here, this is where we're going to put our sirloin, our chicken, our turkey, what have you. And it's like, if you kind of eat like that, you're going to be doing better than most of the population. And then, if they train a little more, I open up the carbohydrates, you know, by a third,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 38:13

by a third, meaning you increase the carbohydrate. Yes,

Nick Barringer: 38:16

yeah. So, so if it's, you know, if you have, like, one of those CEOs or executive athletes, or, you know, I've worked with people who like, they do intelligence, right? So they look at screens and, you know, they take in information. But some of them like to run. Some of them like to ruck. And so, you know, if you're doing, like, 10 miles, and obviously you can have more carbohydrates, right? Nick,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 38:38

and I talk all about carbohydrates in this episode, and one of those carbohydrates that we talk about is honey. And I will tell you what. I actually have been using honey for about a year, but not just any honey. And this episode is brought to you by the honey that I use, which is manicurah, when I've had a long or taxing Day, which feels like every day, and I need some extra fuel, I turn to manicora. I think of manuka honey as a functional carbohydrate. It's not just sugar. It's packed with prebiotics and antioxidants that support digestive health and your immune system. So it's serving a dual purpose, not just adding empty carbs. And one of my favorite ways to enjoy it is with apples, with my family, and, of course, peanut butter. We use this incredible honey in teas, especially when someone has a sore throat, because of its powerful medicinal properties. Honestly, we use it anytime we need a natural sweetener. You can check out their website to learn more. Head to manicora.com/dr lion to get $25 off the starter kit, which comes with an MGO 850, plus manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon and a guidebook. You guys will absolutely love this incredible honey. But

Nick Barringer: 40:03

those days that you're just sitting in front of the computer screen and, you know, you just lift, lift through a quick weight lifting session 30 minutes at the at the end of the work day, it's going to be a little less. And so that's, that's kind of how I play it, and then see how they respond, because I find. And if there's any dietitian out there who's who has this code cracked, please, you know, share it. You got to experiment with the individual a little bit. It's like, okay, Gabrielle, we're going to do this. Do this, eat this way for we tell me how you feel, feeling low energy, feeling high energy, all right, let's you know, up this a little bit. Come back on this. How's your weight going? If your goal is to lose weight, how much weight are you losing? You know, if you're losing weight too fast, that's a problem as well. Why is that a problem? Because you're probably losing muscle mass.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 40:49

Terrible. Yes, so with this ozempic craze, which, by the way, I think ozempic And these GLP ones are tremendous drugs, yes, but the rate of weight loss is so fast that 50% could be lean tissue, and lean tissue could be bone, it could be organ, and it could be muscle,

Nick Barringer: 41:09

yes, right? And then And then, as these individuals age, or if they already are older, now, increased risk for falls, all those, all those other issues. So I definitely think they're the medications are to be respected. I mean, you're, you know, you're practicing physician, so you're, you're the more appropriate person to speak on this than I am, but, but, yeah, I think it's a tremendous tool. And I listen to your, your podcast with Mike, I should tell Yeah, right, man, that was a great podcast. You guys talking about kind of the future of what's coming down the pipeline. So I think that it's it's exciting, and it's a tool for individuals who previously really struggled to lose weight, but But it's definitely something to be respected, and it should be paired with exercise, protein and good nutrition for

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 42:04

the carbs, I agree with you 1,000,000% is there a baseline recommendation that you don't go below? I'll give you an example. So Ted Neiman is a friend, and he is really one of the OGS in the space, and he doesn't go below 100 grams of carbs a day. Do you have a threshold for

Nick Barringer: 42:21

I think that would be, yeah. I mean, I think that would make sense for most people, is yeah, not to go above 100

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 42:28

and then, or below, or above, or, pardon

Nick Barringer: 42:30

me, below, below. Yes. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Below, yeah. I mean, I think usually I would say like 150 but 100 I'm okay with that. I wouldn't

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 42:38

you would not go below that. No, and I was looking at some of this other data, and basically you'll burn from what I read, and I'm curious as to how you do it, because you did, you co authored, and it was the ISSN, which is the International Society for sports nutrition. Position, stand on the tactical athlete nutrition. This came out in 2022 and the ISSN, they're amazing. They come out with these guidelines that really help put together an evidence based view, would you say? And from what I understand, from 40 to 70 grams of carbohydrates, typically you have to be above 120 beats per minute, and you can dispose of depending on how intense that activity is. Do you dose carbohydrates based on their level of activity in that way? Do you calculate? Do you think, okay, this person is going to be doing this kind of run training, because they're going to be training for two hours, if they're going at a slow pace, they're going to be going through 40 grams of carbs per hour. How do you think about that? For someone who's listening, who wants to put into Yes, application, yeah,

Nick Barringer: 43:49

usually, I think that the general rule is, you know, 30 to 60 grams of carbohydrate per hour. Now it depends on that individual, right? You got, like, a marathon, or, like, your husband who's trying to go as fast as possible, then, then it might, you know, go, go beyond that. And that's, that's mostly, I think, the the lead person you'd want to kind of look at in that would be Dr asker. You can droop, right? He because, you know, he's, he's done some things with his athletes. I think they went up to, like 90 grams per hour runners. I know there was a paper with, I think it was mountain bikers that went above 100 which would be hard on the gut. But again, we're talking about, if you're trying to go fast as possible, which the average, you know generalist is not. And so I would say 30 to 60 would be where I would say 30

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 44:40

to 60. So for example, if someone is starting at 100 grams, if they're maybe a small person like myself versus maybe someone like you, you do. You have about 150 grams a day. You probably don't have to count at this stage. You just have to be mindful. I try

Nick Barringer: 44:55

to be mindful. I don't, yeah, I don't. I don't track my macros. I just. Just kind of eat. And I'm, like, all right, I'm, you know, I want some green on my plate. I want, you know, I use the plate. Like, okay, what should my plate look like? And that's how I eat every day. And then when I'm snacking, I do. I'm, I do think about getting all my macros in like a snack, where I rarely, unless I'm, like, trying to just get some fuel for a quick workout, rarely do I just eat, like, pure carbs, right? You know, maybe I have a banana or have something like that, but usually it's, you know, something with a cheese or something with nuts or something I'm always, like, trying to get protein fat in there as well.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 45:32

And is that to slow down the absorption, to blunt and insulin? Yeah,

Nick Barringer: 45:37

yeah, it's that. And then satiety, right? Because, you know, like you said, is like, my metabolism at 45 is a lot different than 25 it's so, you know, before it's like, I could eat as much I wanted. You never, you know, try to gain weight, and you couldn't gain weight where now I can, like, look at a pizza, and I feel like I gained weight. So, so I got to be more mindful of that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 45:58

And for carbohydrate intake. Do you care about when people have it? Does it need to be before exercise? Does it have to be after? What does the data say in terms of peak output, output for performance, you definitely

Nick Barringer: 46:13

want to have enough on board when you start. But I would say the most important timing, especially if we're looking at like long endurance events, is like, during and then for recovery post. And there was a paper that just came out, and I forgot the author, but it was, you know, talking about that nutrient timing, and then looking, you know, getting those carbohydrates in. And then it looked at performance, I think, over two days. And you know, if you didn't get those carbohydrates within, like, I think it was four hours, it affected your performance negatively over the, you know, the next two days. So there is something to fascinating, yeah, there is something to that, you know, that post, you know, window, post exercise window, to kind of replenish that muscle glycogen that, you know, the, who was that? Dr, John Ivey, you know, work. So, so, so, yes, especially if you're dealing with athletes,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 47:03

I think that that's interesting, because the data for protein, it doesn't matter, right? The protein is within that day. There may be some reason to get protein in closer to after your workout, and the there are few and far between. This would be in an individual who potentially is on a low protein diet, is a older individual on a lower protein diet, or perhaps exhaustive exercise. But other than that, for the most part, as long as that protein, as long as you're getting it in, within that day, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but do you think and again, we can pull up this data. Maybe I would love to do a full episode on glycogen. Be so cool. Do you think that it's the rate of glycogen repletion that I mean, why would it have to be Yeah, why do you think it matters? I don't have an answer.

Nick Barringer: 47:58

Maybe we get back to that. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think we have to get back to and have to look, does

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 48:03

hydration affect recovery? Yes, yes,

Nick Barringer: 48:08

hydration affects recovery. And so that's why, you know, the the cheapest tool you got look at hydration is that scale, right, weighing yourself before and after, especially if you're, you know, listen to this, and you're in Texas right now the weather is manageable, right? But give it a month, give it to, you know, two months, and it's gonna be pretty, pretty miserable, and you're gonna lose a lot of fluids.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 48:28

You know, actually, that's how I heard about you for the first time. Do you know that I was helping a guy get through buds, and I called Andy Galpin, and I said, Andy, how do you think about hydration, very specific hydration protocols for these guys that are going to go in, you know, in through Hell Week? And he said, You know what he said? And I hope you're listening, Andy, I don't know you need to talk to Nick Beringer. And then he connected me with you. And this is many years ago, from a hydration standpoint, how much water, and is it just water? Do we need electrolytes? Because I use electrolytes, yes. I mean, I number one. I can't drink all that water. I just I'm out. But you give me some electrolytes, like element with some salt, magnesium, and I feel like I'm less likely to cramp. I feel as if I can actually sweat more. I don't know if there is a correlation between hydration and and sweating more, meaning, if you're not hydrated, you might sweat less. I don't know. But what do you recommend for hydration?

Nick Barringer: 49:34

Yes, you know, you know half the body weight baseline is like half your body weight in ounces,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 49:41

right? In ounces? Okay, yeah,

Nick Barringer: 49:45

so that's, that's kind of baseline. Then, you know, I tell them also track it. I like using the scale pre and post, because, you know, hydration is one of those. It is going to vary. Are we talking about somebody who works out in a gym in Houston for. First 45 or 60 minutes during the summer, or somebody, you know, like Shane, who might go out for what, like a four hour run. I mean, I have gray

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 50:07

hair by the time he's back, yeah, going out for a run, it's like five years later he comes back. But,

Nick Barringer: 50:12

but so the fluid loss that he's, you know, experiencing in this in this heat in Texas, and then the same with the electrolytes, like he would be somebody that, yeah. I mean, he has to have electrolytes, like, if he's doing a four hour running here. So I think it depends on the individual. And then the last piece that you hit on is, what are they like?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 50:34

Could you hydrate with just water your diet?

Nick Barringer: 50:37

Yeah, most people can. Yes. I would say most people, you can certainly hydrate with just water, because you're gonna electrolytes from the food you eat. But again, you know the extreme, if you're out and it's 90 degrees and you're running for four hours, you're probably gonna lose more than you got in your food, right? Unless you, you know, chow down on some, like, salty pretzels right before, because, you know, he could be losing, what, like a gram of sodium an hour.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 51:01

And it's not just sodium you're replacing, right? Yeah, I think you were talking about that. There's a way to test so your sweat composition is gonna be different than mine. Yes, tell me about that. So

Nick Barringer: 51:13

there's different companies that have looked at that. I used a Gatorade sweat patch one time. Is tracking it when I was running San Antonio. That's really cool. Can you

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 51:21

tell us what that is?

Nick Barringer: 51:22

Yeah, it's just, it was just a patch you put on your arm, and then as your your sweat drips into it as you run. You know, you scanned it with your phone, and then you looked at it, and it would give you, you know, your sodium content. But there's, there's different companies, like, I know Nick's bio sensors. There's others out there. I'm not, you know, connected to any brand, but, but I know they're, they're looking at this, and you know it is kind of nice, because, yeah, athletes, you know where your diet's gonna affect your sweat rate too, or you know what that composition looks

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 51:51

like. Thank you to one skin for sponsoring this episode. I only bring on sponsors whose products I genuinely use and love, and one skin is one that I'm truly excited about. I first discovered it after seeing one of my girlfriend's skin completely transform. I asked her what she was using, and it was one skin, I said, hook a sister up. I have struggled with texture and dryness on my face and body, and since using one skin, I have seen real improvements in skin texture. What makes one skin stand out is their use of novel, clean science backed ingredients, especially their clinically studied peptide that supports DNA repair and targets the root cause of skin aging. And right now I'm loving their broad spectrum face sunscreen. I also use eye cream and their topical body supplement. It's rare to find skin care that delivers real results for both face and body, and this has become a go to in my routine, you all can get 15% off with the code Dr lion, go to one skin.com and get 15% off the code with Dr Lyon. And here's what I will tell you. I have tried just about everything. I have landed on one skin. I think that their product is amazing, especially as it relates to summer, because summer is coming up, and in this episode, we talk all about sucralose and DNA damage. Well, I tell you what, I think that DNA damage also not just affects internally, but affects us externally. And I don't want any of that. So if you want to have great looking skin, head over to one skin.com and use the code, Dr lion, that I did not know that, yes, diet affects the composition of your sweat. What I always perceived, or what I thought, was that each individual has a unique sweat composition. But that's not true. Is that true? Or is it? I mean, there

Nick Barringer: 53:56

could be, there's definitely gonna be some individual variants, but again, going back to, you know, if you go out to eat, right, and eat a bunch of salty food, and we test, we get you out in the heat, and we test your sweat, it's gonna be higher sodium than it normally would be, right? So, so there is that, but a lot of it with, you know, with the electrolyte beverages, I just find it like what people like in terms of, you know, what do you want to reach for and what are you going to drink? Except

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 54:25

Gatorade with red dye number 40, except that, yes, and sucralose and a little bit of yellow dye number five,

Nick Barringer: 54:31

yeah, yeah. So do they still use red.or no? Okay, no, it just, yeah, yeah. So, so again, you know, if you like. There's a lot of different brands out there. Yeah, how would

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 54:42

they get it from their food? If they are eating not enough fruits and vegetables, would they get enough magnesium and potassium? I feel like those are nutrients of concern, at least magnesium.

Nick Barringer: 54:55

Yes, certainly that would be a challenge. You get. You know, potassium, you know, again, from celery, from other things, but yeah, if they don't eat fruits and vegetables at

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 55:07

all celery, oh, I have celery. On occasion. I've had celery since 1980 really, yeah, man, I like so. But I was, I was looking up what foods actually have potassium? Because everyone thinks about a banana. I think I landed on potato, yes, as a very high potassium food. Have you ever used the is it sodium chloride or potassium chloride? It's new salt. Have you ever used that? I haven't used in a really long time, but you know, what are the other foods that would have again, I can look that up, potassium or magnesium is we're thinking about, if someone doesn't want to take a whole bunch of stuff, what? Yeah,

Nick Barringer: 55:46

I mean for for potassium, celery was one. I think it's like four stalks equals one. Banana, you know, for magnesium, nuts, I know. I know nuts are, we didn't

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 55:59

talk about fat, which we definitely spinach, orange avocado, yeah, there you go. Beetroot, potatoes, okay, those are all potassium, rich foods. It looks like WebMD has a whole list right down, yep. And you can go to the USDA website. They typically do it. What about fat? We did not finish your we talked about carbs. You talked about protein. How do you dose fat? If at all,

Nick Barringer: 56:27

it fills in everything. I, you know, most, I don't know if I've ever had anybody really have to track fat outside of somebody with high like LDL, like watch their, you know, saturated fat. I, you know, definitely I'm not

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 56:44

scared of fat you need. I mean, it's been really overhyped, right,

56:48

right? And so

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 56:52

I just try to add any any extra fat, basically, yeah, yeah, I'm

Nick Barringer: 56:57

not one to add any extra fat to anything like I don't put butter in my coffee or anything like that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 57:04

You and I are. I'm surprised. I actually didn't realize how close our dietary recommendations are. How we believe that, you know, and how we do it in clinic is we start with protein. We identify the needs of muscle. We identify if they are aging, if they are sedentary, sedentary people actually need more protein, which is surprising. And then there's an increased need as they become more of an elite athlete, yes. And then we go to carbohydrate for exactly the reasons that you talked about increased fiber. And then we don't actually care about fat. It's personal choice, right? It falls where it falls. Well, you

Nick Barringer: 57:40

know where I learned that from, and maybe you read the same book forever, strong if you read it, I've never read that really good. It's really very, very user friendly. It's even got some great recipes in

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 57:52

it. Just saying that is so funny. Yes, I've never read that book. So you I actually really love that, that conceptual way of putting together a diet, because you don't have to overthink it. It

Nick Barringer: 58:05

shouldn't be that complicated, right? It was, and that's what when I talk to when I give like group classes for nutrition, I say, you know, all my 20 years of being a dietitian, I find that it's very rare that it's a lack of information, it's more lack of implementation, right? So it's more about teaching people those small, little habits that they can do daily to make that change, versus being like, broccoli is good. You should probably have less ice cream. Like most people intuitively know what they should be doing so and

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 58:39

I don't know anymore though. I think we've got the carnivore diet. We have the vegan diet paleo. There's just this. I think people are really deeply confused, and I think that they're afraid to make the wrong choice.

Nick Barringer: 58:54

Yeah, well, part of it, I think, with all the different diets, is, again, that the practical, evidence based approach isn't probably going to sell as many books, is if you can, if you can say something extreme, you know, obviously that's what catches people's attention. I don't understand why the carnivore diet would be that confusing. Wouldn't we have all this data on fruits and vegetables, you know, if anybody has any paper out there that has shown people get sick more often if they eat broccoli. Please share it with me.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 59:24

He wants it because he doesn't want any more broccoli.

Nick Barringer: 59:26

No, I love, I know I love broccoli, and then you know. But even like the carnivore diet, what does that meat consist of? Right? There was, there was just an you might have seen this. It was a case study of an individual doing a carnivore diet had yellow nodules on the skin. Come to find out, it was cholesterol. I think his cholesterol was over 1000 but his carnivore diet was just straight, like hamburgers, like fatty hamburgers, which would be a lot different than, you know, experienced, than if somebody was just eating like elk and deer and so again, with all these things. Things is, it's like, you know, okay, what are we put in our body, kind of like with the carbohydrates? So your carbohydrates coming from fruits and vegetables, or is it coming from, you know, chips and other snack foods? So what is the composition of that diet?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:00:12

And that makes a lot of sense. And I will say, from a carnivore diet standpoint, where I have actually seen it effective is in a way of elimination, and I have seen it be extremely effective for individuals with small intestinal bacteria overgrowth. I have seen it be effective for individuals that have really impaired gut microbiome or a infection, a lot of pathogens, because it seems that the bacteria, I don't know it, the extra fiber seems to really disregulate them. And you put them on a carnivore diet for four to six weeks, find out what the what pathology is happening. Test them for parasites. Treat the parasites. Begin to then add back in fruits and vegetables, and they seem to do a lot better. I think that there is a genetic variation between what works for individuals, and it's probably based on that gut microbiome. Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's how I think about it. No,

Nick Barringer: 1:01:17

and what you describe is very reasonable, and I'm with you 100% in terms of, like, you know, you said you're like, all right, it's an elimination diet. We're taking everything back to try to figure things out, resetting, but then we're going to add back the fruits of vegetables, you

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:01:31

know. I do think that food diversity is important, fiber, you know? And I'm looking at this list of magnesium, what would we ingest? So it says approximately 30 to 40% of the dietary magnesium is that is consumed, is absorbed by the body, which is, seems like that's great absorption. And then I'm looking at the list of what contains magnesium, and I can't say I really eat any of them. Pumpkin seeds. You already pumpkin seeds. No, 156 milligrams. No, I don't eat it. Almonds. Don't eat those. Either, cashews, pumpkin seeds, far and away that seem to be really high. And then a bunch of nuts, fortified cereal, yeah, not a ton of great magnesium type sources raisins. I love raisins. Only 23 milligrams, perhaps magnesium would be and I think a large portion of the population is deficient in magnesium. It says that green leafy vegetables, such as spinach, I can't even tell you, last time I had spinach, I better. You guys better invite me over. Yeah, we're gonna make spinach next time. But that's interesting that I can see, based on this list, why people would be deficient in some of these nutrients for that reason. Yeah,

Nick Barringer: 1:02:51

and I think magnesium is a reasonable thing, especially like you talk about sleep. You had a DR Allison breaker on I listened to that episode. She's so amazing. So

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:03:00

do you need four hours of sleep? Are you one of those people that have that snip that she was talking about?

Nick Barringer: 1:03:08

Yeah, it would be awesome. Because, you know, I have a two year old, if I could run off of four hours of sleep, but 100% I need, like, seven to eight. Like I need my seven eight.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:03:17

So Allison breaker is a neuroscientist, active duty. She's amazing. She is a sleep specialist, and she did some of her dissertation was in clock genes and skeletal muscle. Anyway, she worked on a study where it looked at the snips of rangers, and they seem to have this genetic mutation that allowed them to function well without increasing inflammatory markers on something like four hours of sleep. No,

Nick Barringer: 1:03:45

there's definitely those mutants, and I've worked with them. I was, I was not one of them, but I'm willing, but I always wanted to do this study. And Allison, you could probably do this study. I think if you looked at general officers, the ones that like rise to the rank, like the general crystals, who have those, those unbelievable you read their routines, and you're just like, how does he do it? I bet those are your genetic mutants. Because to rise to that, to that level, and can just function and be able to, you know, carry on an intelligent conversation, and you would see that individual be like, I know, you probably didn't, you know, only got four hours of sleep, and yet you just crushed five miles, and you're like, ready to go like, you're, you're a superhero, like, what's, what's going on? So, so that's been always, my theory is, like the senior ranking people are probably those genetic mutants. I've

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:04:28

never thought about that. I think that that's probably right on. And even the senior ranking surgeons that are able to perform and produce over and over and over again, really, we hate you

:: 04:40

guys, I know, don't you? Like,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:04:43

yes, what do you think is the number one supplement that people should take?

Nick Barringer: 1:04:48

Oh, should take. That's easy, creatine monohydrate. I mean, I feel like that's such a layup, right? Like, why would you say anything different in terms of, if you look at, I don't know

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:04:58

if I'm. I might have picked, yeah, brother, I might have picked vitamin D, or I might have picked Omega three. I don't want you to rethink your answer, no, no, but I want to know I came

Nick Barringer: 1:05:09

out of Dr Richard criders laugh if I say anything else besides creatine monohydrate, I feel like you're fired. Yeah, ex communicated, and you know that, like you know that that mafia of his students, or, you know, we roll deep. So, so no, but, I mean, I think for all the benefits, but to your point, the vitamin D,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:05:30

I want to know about creatine. I want to know why creatine. Because you said that really fast. I did say that really and I want to know the dosing. And I want to know why

Nick Barringer: 1:05:38

the muscular health, like we said. Okay, so I'm, you know, again, I'm aging. I'm trying to maintain my muscle. I'm trying to maintain my my power output, another thing that drops off as we age. So, so creatine for that, right? But then also cognitively, there's been a lot of nice papers and research on sleep deprivation, and so even for this podcast, I'll admit, so Axel maybe kept up a little bit last night. You know, he got a vote. So I took about 30 grams four hours ago, before I came over here, because I knew I had to be do to be sharp. And that was based off, again, I can't think of the paper.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:06:16

I'm sure Darren can does a lot of work on that. Yeah,

Nick Barringer: 1:06:19

yeah, but it, but the dose was, it was, what was it? Point three megs per kilogram of body weight. And I'm like, 85 kids, so, so anyway, it's a higher dose than the, you know, three to five grams per day. You're getting more into the 20 grams and above for most people, for cognitive and then it peaks at that, like four hour mark for, you know, is there

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:06:38

any issue with taking it at once, the 30 grams at once. For people, I

Nick Barringer: 1:06:43

don't, some people have gastrointestinal, you know, issues with it. The Fighter I work with, UFC, Jim Miller, I know sometimes, like with his dosing, he likes to split it up. But I don't have that problem. So again, it's the individual in terms of that, does

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:07:01

one need to do a loading dose anymore? How would you recommend people take creatine

Nick Barringer: 1:07:08

for most just the simple three to five grams a day, because you're going to reach tissue saturation, you know, at the end of 30 days. Now, if you had an event that was coming up for whatever reason, you're like, Oh, I forgot. I had a power lifting meet two weeks from now. I want to, you know, Max, then I would be like, All right, let's load you up. Would it be something like 30 grams a day? Or, yeah, 20 grams, for most people, probably, you know, 20 grams a day. And again, it depends on the size, you know, are we talking about somebody? Like, who did you have on here? That guy's so massive. He was a ranger. Justin leinhard, is that his name? Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:07:37

Judd. He's a massive human Yes, we love judge,

Nick Barringer: 1:07:42

yeah, so, so like somebody is 100 Right, right? That's what I'm saying. Like he's, you know, I know, I, you know, fellow Ranger. I don't know if we ever overlapped, but I wanted to, like, hate him listening to your podcast, because I don't like it when guys are big, muscular, intelligent and athletic, that that shouldn't be allowed, right? Like, you should, you should have a hole somewhere in your game. I feel like, pretend like you're dumb, or, yeah, right, like, but they he checked all the boxes. But no, it was a great episode. But yeah, so if you have somebody like that, it could be higher.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:08:11

Okay, fine, then what's your number one supplement that people waste their money on?

Nick Barringer: 1:08:16

Probably, although not as I don't see it as much, and maybe just because I'm not in the gncs and other places, but, like, fat burners. Oh no, are those still a thing, right? Like, I don't know, but that's what I thought of. Like, okay, if there had to be one,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:08:29

what about testosterone boosting supplements? Okay, there you go. That's it. You guys could definitely waste your money on that.

Nick Barringer: 1:08:35

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, you could waste your money and hurt yourself on those. Is, I would say the most dangerous thing, and I have seen that. Did I tell you about? No, I want to hear about it. So, you know, when I was deployed to Iraq, you know, with the Rangers, like there was a case, we had some cases of individuals with, you know, gynecomastia and stuff, and it was a dietary supplement. Are you sure it was a dietary it was a dietary dietary supplement? It was a dietary supplement at the time. It was called Super draw. It was a cool name, right? And it was 17 Alpha alkylated. So, so you read the label. What was interesting? Guys were were taking different stuff. So not everybody was taking super draw. They were taking all these different things. But then when I looked at the label, you know, I was kind of, it was, it was, it was a great project, because I got to work with the battalion surgeon. And, like you and like, you know, go, you know, as a dietitian, like, what else the job can I do? Like, so we were looking, and they all, I remember all the dietary supplements had the same chemical structure, and so it was like a weak oral anabolic steroid that was being sold as a dietary supplement. But these individuals didn't know. They just, they heard, hey, if I take this, I get I get strong. And then what

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:09:45

was it converting estrogen? Or what was the Yes, it was. It was

Nick Barringer: 1:09:49

also hard on the liver, in terms of, you know, when you're deployed, you can't drink alcohol. But there were some cases where individuals would come

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:09:55

back, I did not know that you cannot drink alcohol when you're deployed. What does Shane tell you? What every day?

Nick Barringer: 1:10:01

You're not supposed to. Maybe I should say you're definitely not supposed to. Now, on the way out there, like, you know, if you're, like, in in Kuwait or Qatar, they might, you might have, like, a limit of like, like one or two beers a day. I forgot what it was, but like in theater in Iraq, Afghanistan, you're not, not supposed

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:10:16

that sounds like a really good waste of money on supplements and then potential leads you into gynecomastia. What do you think? Okay, fine, so what are your thoughts on vitamin D supplementation? Because it seems as if you know one of my very dear friends, Dr Alexis Cowan. She's a light biologist, and she's absolutely against vitamin D supplementation. I'm like, Alexis, why? Because the data from, say, a geriatric lab. You know, when I was at WashU, we tested everyone's vitamin D. We always supplement vitamin D. And I think that there may be some potential controversy, curious as to what your thoughts are.

Nick Barringer: 1:10:58

I mean, my thoughts is always like, I look at like, risk to reward, and

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:11:02

pretty sure you're on a paper here with vitamin D. So yes, that's

Nick Barringer: 1:11:06

what I'm saying. And so you know that that was with, you know, Kelly shad, she was one of my students, but brilliant dietitian, and we pulled medical records and looked at individuals diagnosed with depression and vitamin D levels, right? And I think it was, you know, when we controlled for all factors, if you were vitamin D deficient, you were 22% more likely to be depressed, right? And

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:11:32

this is the paper, the relationship between vitamin D status and depression, athlete population,

Nick Barringer: 1:11:37

yeah. And what was cool about that paper, we started with clinics in Texas, you know, right down the road at, you know, now fort cavasos used to be Fort Hood all the way up to Alaska and so, you know. And you could see that relationship get stronger as you went further north, right with less sunlight. We know we have vitamin D receptors in the muscles. We got them in the brain, like, like to me. And again, for my dissertation, I did vitamin D draws at Fort cavasos, Colleen, Texas. So Central Texas, plenty of sunshine, and like 40% were insufficient or deficient. So, so, again,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:12:10

you can find that for the listener in terms of levels. So,

Nick Barringer: 1:12:14

what is that? So, deficiency is 2020. Insufficiency is that less than 30.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:12:24

I can look that up while you're talking, I'll get back to

Nick Barringer: 1:12:27

that. But so, you know, we use the basic classifications. Now, what I can answer is, like, hey, what am I looking for? Optimal? I'm like, 60 to 80 is kind of where I'm shooting for. So the bottom line is, folks weren't optimal, and so vitamin D is relatively cheap. It's an easy lab to get, and so I don't really see, you know why you wouldn't supplement with the three so

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:12:50

you don't have any issue that. And I, you know, I have to say I don't either. I again, the data from what I've seen is reasonable that one would take it. And we know that there are issues when people have low vitamin D. I mean, rickets, that's caused by vitamin D deficiency or calcium. And in terms of effectiveness, is it effective orally? Yes. And do they have to get vitamin d3

Nick Barringer: 1:13:17

versus d2 Yeah, vitamin D, vitamin d3 is, is, you know what you want, that's, that's the active version, which it brings up a whole nother conversation. If you're listening to this and you're a military is a lot of the DoD formularies, for some reason, carry d2

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:13:31

I know is that. Why is that? Was it cheaper? Was it by mistake? They think they haven't updated it? Or what?

Nick Barringer: 1:13:39

I wish I had a better answer. We've investigated it, and, you know, we're trying to change it, and it just, I don't, I don't know if I was the wrong rank, but it was just, you know, you kind of run into the bureaucracy of the system. I think that's a bit of it. But, yeah, a lot of military formulas, formulas have the d2 version, but d3 is what you want. Dr

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:13:59

Nick and I have talked all about magnesium and the foods that you need to eat to get it, but let's talk about it as one of the most overlooked nutrients that has a massive impact on your health, magnesium, and by the way, most of us are not getting nearly enough. In fact, 75% of American adults are deficient, which means there's a three out of four chance you are too magnesium plays a critical role in hundreds of functions throughout the body, from energy production and brain function to stress regulation and sleep. That's why I'm a huge fan of Melo magnesium. It is a powerful, super blend that helps fill the gaps mellow combines highly absorbable forms of magnesium with GABA and l theanine, two amino acids known for their calming stress reducing effects. It also, which is amazing, has over 70 trace minerals to support whole body health if you're looking. For something to help you unwind without relying on melatonin. This is a great alternative. It can help you reduce stress, improve sleep, strength and immunity, boost your mood, all in one scoop a day, be the best version of yourself, and of course, get 15% off with the code Dr lion, go to Hello ned.com/dr lion, that's H, E, L, L O, N, E, d.com/dr, Lion, to get 15% off.

Nick Barringer: 1:15:32

So it might be worth investing in that. But again, I look at the risk to reward. And I mean, if you're taking, you know, 2000 5000 I use a day, you're not gonna build up to like, a toxic level, right? So, so I don't, I don't see why you wouldn't just take that as a an insurance policy for most people. Now, if you have your vitamin D levels drawn and you know, you're, you're great, you're sitting at 80, then, yeah, you don't need to supplement whatever you're doing. You know you're doing it, right? Yeah,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:16:01

and it's, it's fascinating that there's still controversy around it. And this is from a Mayo Clinic proceedings. And basically, have you, did you hear about this? So this was vitamin D supplementation to D or not to D, and there was a trial. So it was the vital study, and it looked at it was a large randomized control trial of daily supplemental vitamin D. So it said the they conducted this vital study because large randomized control trial of daily supplemental vitamin D were lacking, and they were randomized to vitamin D and omega three fatty acids. And the primary endpoint of the study was first incident. It looks like non vertebral hip fracture. And what they found, the study found no benefit for fracture risk reduction with vitamin D supplement. Vitamin D supplementation, and I will tell you when this came out, I called the geriatricians, obviously, and they said, we still recommend vitamin D. Yeah. It's

Nick Barringer: 1:17:08

like, Yeah, well, there's other things, but just fraction, you know, she does more circuits, right? And then there was a paper maybe, is it using that vital that I can remember? Then they look at, there was a paper with omega threes, and I think they use vitamin D as well. Looked at like telomere length.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:17:22

I did not see it,

Nick Barringer: 1:17:25

but bottom line, I think it was, it was the Omega threes that were effective and slowing the shortening of telomeres, which whether that's your biological age or not, still, kind

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:17:35

of we did. I did have a patient that wanted to get her telomeres tested. Yeah, and she was really happy she had telomeres that were 10 years younger than her actual age. If it was real I was signing that's awesome. I'm afraid to do the test. What about in terms of how could an individual who doesn't want to take vitamin D? How are they going to get vitamin

Nick Barringer: 1:18:02

D through you know, the same sources, Omega three, you know, possibly through fish. You know, cod liver oil. That would be the main mushrooms. But it's, I think mushrooms are mostly kind of a d2 it's not as bio, bio available. And then, you know, sunlight, right? Like, that's the other, which, again, and I know there's a whole debate on that, like, with, you know, skin cancer and how much sun you should get. I have a family history of skin cancer, so I supplement vitamin D, like, you know, I still get out in the sun a lot, but I'm going to respect it. And then, by orders of my wife, I'm always slathered in sunscreen. She makes sure of it. You know, same with my kids. So, so there is that, right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:18:45

And basically it says that the recommendation, according to this, I'm looking at this from UCLA, eight to 10 minutes of sun exposure at noon produces the recommended amount of vitamin D, whether that's true or not, it says in the winter, only 10% of the body is exposed. Listen, if you live in I grew up in Chicago, I will tell you there is 0% Oh, yeah, of my body exposed in winter. And this says 10% of the body exposed, and nearly two hours of sun exposure at noon is needed to produce a sufficient amount of vitamin

Nick Barringer: 1:19:19

D. Yeah. Good luck with that. If you live in Chicago, even Washington, DC. I mean any, any of those

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:19:26

vitamin D sun lamp? I have one of those upstairs. I don't need it. Now that I live in Houston, a vitamin D sun lamp. Yes, please, and thank you. I'm curious is to see what is going to come out if, again, you supplement vitamin D, you can measure in the blood, is it as effective, less effective as sunlight? I don't know. I don't know if it produces a variation in the form of vitamin D or not. I don't know if you know. I have

Nick Barringer: 1:19:54

you know throughout kind of knowing, my blood labs from my military career, I tested. Did low one time I started supplementing. I haven't tested low since, right? And I just did the, you know, our friend Dan Garner's blood test, that full panel and all like that. And like my vitamin D was beautiful, and I supplement every day.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:20:14

Amazing. What about organ? Means, love them.

Nick Barringer: 1:20:18

If I get this might be a you know, conversation, where in Houston local can we find good organ meats? Because I want to know, but, but, yeah, if chicken livers on the menu or livers on the menu, I'm ordering it. Whole

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:20:29

Foods has chicken liver. Oh, okay, I think it's called Bell. But

Nick Barringer: 1:20:33

is there a restaurant that makes it because I'm I'm lazy sometimes, is

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:20:39

it? I think chicken liver is amazing. Tons of vitamin D, tons of iron. It was my kid's first food.

Nick Barringer: 1:20:47

How do you make it? Stir fry it. You just stir fry it. Okay?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:20:52

I will say that my calf liver, or anything beyond chicken liver, is inedible. It's not edible. I It's just It tastes terrible when I do it. Yeah, you just gotta work on the recipe. Yep, I just have to work on the recipe. But chicken livers with a little bit of bison. So basically, we grind chicken livers and bison and we make chicken liver bison burgers. Oh, I'm gonna try that. You don't even need a multivitamin. That's,

Nick Barringer: 1:21:17

yeah, no, I mean, I mean the dose, well, you put out a great was it like infographic I saw with the liver and the dose of micronutrients compared to other substances? And, I mean, yeah, I mean, there you go. That was, I

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:21:32

cannot take credit for that. That was my team's idea. Shout out to sunny and Julia, my team. They were like, Okay, we're gonna knock this out. I said, Please don't make me cook that. That's great. And you know, we can get a lot of these nutrients from Whole Foods, but there are nutrients of concern, vitamin D, magnesium. What about Berberine? Have you heard about Berberine? And have you heard that Berberine is called the nature's ozempic? I

Nick Barringer: 1:21:59

mean, that's awesome, right? Anytime you do that, yeah, definitely, definitely, I wouldn't say that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:22:06

I definitely would not say that, right? Absolutely, yeah, if that's your expectation, Berberine is not the nature's but

Nick Barringer: 1:22:14

there was, I think there was one clinical trial it did as well as, like, or close to, as well as Metformin. I mean, yes, it's exciting. And so that's one, you know, I would consider, I would definitely look at

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:22:32

Berberine. Does have some good literature on it, and it's a yellow so, according to this, it is a yellow plant dye. That can't be right? It is found in barberry. Did you know that no organ, grape? I don't even know what that is. Gold thread. Please. Friends, if you're listening to this, correct us, because this is what I am reading, and here's what they found there have been definitely studies on Berberine, and what I've seen is that it does have an impact on blood sugar control, lipid metabolism. It does have some anti inflammatory effects. Doesn't seem to have many side effects. I have not seen any head to head studies with metformin, but I wouldn't be surprised that there is some benefit. Again, I actually believe it's probably there's a genetic potentiation if you have the right enzymes or genes to be able to utilize that. Early on in my career, I was really interested in these genetic SNPs, and it seemed that certain people had a propensity to respond better to various supplements. Again, it's such a complicated field, but to this day, I definitely believe that there are certain responders and non responders. Oh,

Nick Barringer: 1:23:52

yeah, no. I mean, even if you look at some of like the creatine studies, right, like some people take creatine and it's well, and then even, you know, there's a genetic component. But then, you know, what's your diet look like as well? Are you consuming a lot of meat and stuff? Well, you might not have a bigger response to creatine as people who consume less or, you know, and Berberine might be the same.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:24:14

I think that that's absolutely right, and here I've got it. It's derived from the berry of the barberry shrub, in case you were wondering. And right, this is, yes, it is. And this is in American family physician, which is a, this is a great journal. This came out in 2023, and basically, it seemed as if, there the data is lacking in terms of it being as effective or nearly effective, when it comes to ozempic it, it also says that there has never been, at this time, a large scale randomized trial or multi center clinical trial. And I. Think that that's interesting. I do think that, listen, Metformin came from a plant, yeah, that there is probably really good potential for some of these dietary supplements. Of course, talk to your physician. I know what they gotta say.

Nick Barringer: 1:25:17

Well, and then the source of the supplement, yeah, as well, right? Like that, that's what, especially, you know, with those plant based, like, like, we talked about, like, where are they grown? Where are you getting it from? Is it? Is it being tested when it comes to the states to make sure, you know, a cheaper product isn't being used? I remember, this was some years back. I don't know if it was choke Berry. It was, it was one of the berries, and it was basically the the importer was using a dye to make the anthocyanin numbers look much higher than the berries were providing, right? And there were some testing, and they figured out, you know, that was, that was what was what was going on, kind of like with the protein and nitrogen. I think it was melanin, you know, we're, you know, putting in this, this toxic product, because it caused the nitrogen spike. And so it's like, oh, we, we have more protein. But it's like, no, no,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:26:12

fake news. So what Nick is talking about is, in infant formulas, they have to account for the protein number, because infants need a certain amount of protein. And what they were doing in China in the formulation is they were adding nitrogen to the formula to show a higher protein number, when, in fact, it was just nitrogen and it wasn't dietary protein. Wasn't these amino acids. And similarly, what Dr Beringer is talking about is the anthocyanins. They are phytochemicals, phyto active ingredients. That's what makes things very rich colors, whether it's blueberries, the purple anthocyanins or purple carrots, you name it, those colors are compounds that are thought to be helpful for the human body, and the amount is typically in relation to the vibrancy. Yeah, and they were putting dye in there that is super lame. And Berberine is supposed to be a very rich color. And I have it here. It's this yellow alkaloid, and it's found in a whole bunch of roots and stems of things. And there has been some research, if I'm looking at this, it says most clinical trials found that daily treatment with 500 to 1500 milligrams of Berberine over multiple doses may have some impact when it comes to blood sugar regulation. And you know, we always have to ask, what's the mechanism of action? And this appears to regulate AMPK. Which AMPK would be part of energy homeostasis, the opposite of mTOR. We always talk about mTOR, or I don't, but maybe we do at home, but mTOR is obviously activated in a Fed state for muscle protein synthesis and amp kinase would unless I'm misunderstanding it is what is activated in fasting. Is that true? Yeah. So there you have it. Always have to have a mechanism of action. Fascinating. Yeah, it's

Nick Barringer: 1:28:17

exciting. I mean, again, it's another one of those where, you know, from what I've read about it, I mean the risk versus reward. If you had a patient who was having a hard time, you know, control their blood glucose, or want to lower their blood glucose, it might be worth it

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:28:32

put them on a higher protein diet, yeah, yeah, right, little glucose monitor. But I will say I do think that this brings us to the conversation of, are there multiple ways to get to an end result, and does it always have to be pharmacological? And I think that pharmaceuticals are great again. I'm a clinician. I am not paid by any pharmaceutical company. I think they have their place. And I also think that there is room for natural protocols. We've been using natural protocols in my clinic, in our practice for years. That's awesome. And what you do is you implement the protocol, and then you retest the individual. So for example, H Pylori. H Pylori is a bacteria that can cause an ulcer, can cause gastric cancer. Someone comes back positive, they really don't want to take antibiotics. There's some evidence for mastic gum and all sorts of natural, more natural treatment options. And they want a choice. You try it, you retest it, and it. You know, for many of our patients, there are a lot of individuals where a more natural approach can work. That's awesome. That crazy. Well,

Nick Barringer: 1:29:46

it's awesome that you're willing to try it. Because, I mean, as you know, like so many physicians, it's, you know, write the script and

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:29:52

no, you're out the door. No, no. But again, our practice is unique. It's a we have a concierge practice, and, you know, we've spent a lot of time. I'm looking at protocols and in the literature and talking to experts as to how to get around some of these other things. I will say that there is no replacement for something like an ozempic, the way that the ozempic works and these GLP ones work, Berberine, nothing, Metformin, nothing is going to come close to the way that these medications work at all. Do you test blood sugar? Is that something that you like to monitor? Have monitored?

Nick Barringer: 1:30:28

I mean, yeah. I mean, from the practical standpoint of like, an A, 1c, telling the stories, I've used a continuous glucose monitor sometimes in my talks, I'll mention it to the audience and be like, hey, it's a tool. I don't recommend. You know, everybody get one, but, but for me, I wore one for a little bit. And, yeah, there were some insights in terms of, like, the order in which you eat your food, and then what

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:30:51

did you learn? I think that's, I think that's great. I have a feeling I know what you're gonna

Nick Barringer: 1:30:55

say. Yeah, yeah. You know, eating the fibrous plant and protein before you go to your carbohydrate, right? Crazy, right? You get a more steady response release, which, again, if you'd have told me, man, you know, 10 years ago, you're like, Hey, Nick the order in which you eat your food's gonna affect your blood glucose, really, but no. And you know, there's been research on that. But then for me also, and I don't know if I told you, this stress, how I handle stress? I had some stressful situations, like, you know, with kids. I'm sure nobody has that, nobody separates, you know, kids are fighting, and my blood glucose monitor went off, and I'm like, Oh, that's right, it went up, right, yeah. Went up. Same, yeah, yeah, same, yeah, and so and so. Then I got stuck in, I remember, in San Antonio, I got stuck in traffic. I was gonna be late to a meeting, and I wasn't yelling, I wasn't cursing. I wasn't cursing. I was just sitting in the car, and my monitor starts going off. I had high blood sugar, and so I was like, Wow. I needed, you know, my stress levels affected my physiology. So I started doing box breathing. I started, you know, I started doing what he's

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:31:53

talking about is tactical breath. Yeah, anytime I have a problem, and I ask Shane, he tells me two things. Number one, never break rule number one, if you guys want to know what that is, please message me. I will tell you off the record. And number two, Oh, honey, you should do some tactical breathing. I like it, which is a four count in, hold for four counts out for four counts, and you do it for a series of cycles. Andrew Huberman talks a lot about managing breath, and it allows you to control your physiology. It gets your nervous system back on track. It

Nick Barringer: 1:32:24

is I, you know, I thought it was Woo, woo, because no way I did doing it

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:32:29

before you jump in that airplane. No,

Nick Barringer: 1:32:31

I never did. I don't know anybody, maybe, maybe the seal guys, yeah, Rangers, yes, there's any Rangers out there, you know, please come up on the net and tell me if you ever talk to a breath. I was just like, God, I hope my shoot opens, you know, like, get out the aircraft. Like, yeah, so, so I don't, I don't, yeah, ever remember to high school breathing? But, yeah, so, but it does. I mean, it works and, and from, you know, talking to some other folks, like, it's not even, like, you know, it has to be four count. It could be two, it could be, but it's just focusing on your breath can like help. So I've been doing a lot of that now with three kids, a lot of tactical breathing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:33:08

I mean, you got it down by the way, Nick showed up at the park with eight kids. My Leo's birthday party. You showed up eight kids. My husband looked over and he goes, Oh my god, Nick is an American That is unbelievable, you

Nick Barringer: 1:33:25

know, to be fair. So, so I love being a dad, but you what I love about as much is like being an uncle. Like being an uncle is awesome, because, you know, you get the experience of like, you know, the kids, which I love, but then I don't have to worry about like, I don't worry about, like, discipline my nieces or anything like that. I just, like, let them, let them be just like, Oh, you want ice cream. Let's go. You know, speaking

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:33:48

of ice cream, I do this is a real conversation. Ice cream, yes, I want to know and where I'm going with this. I have two more questions for you, okay, and then I promise to let you go. I want to talk about detox diets and water fasts. Should we be doing them? And when I think about ice cream, I'm thinking about your ninja, because I really want to know if the ninja works. That would allow me to make whey protein ice cream. And that leads me into the biggest myths that you seem to always hear about nutrition. Okay, so, so kick it off with detoxes. Should we be doing it? Should we not? What is it? No,

Nick Barringer: 1:34:29

so, so detoxes. For those that don't know, if you have a liver and you have a functioning kidneys, they're, that's what they're doing, right? That's, that's their job. Now I do want to say, if you've been exposed to heavy metals, and you're doing chelation therapy, like whole different thing, right? And then you're talking about a medical detox. Medical detox? Yeah, yeah, putting that to the side, for most people, if you're listening to this and you know, you need. You feel like you need a juice cleanse to, you know, flush out the toxins. Your issue is probably not toxins. It's tick tock or wherever you like, wherever you saw it, right? Yeah, disease called tick tock, and you probably turn it off. And, you know, listen to this podcast. No. So, yeah, I have yet to find anybody. And then the water only fast. You know, we talk about electrolytes, electrolyte imbalance, hyponatremia, that's very, you know, that can be very serious, that can be dangerous, so I don't recommend it with anybody. We don't do any detoxes. We don't do, you know, any, any water fast, anything like that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:35:36

Which then leads me to the biggest nutrition myths, and does the ninja actually work?

Nick Barringer: 1:35:42

So the biggest nutrition myths that you

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:35:46

hear from people, should you dry scoop your protein? Oh, should you dry or No, is bone broth a great source of I mean, are there a handful of things, yeah, we seem to hear,

Nick Barringer: 1:35:56

I mean, yeah, the dry scoop that That's horrible. You might choke, right? Like, you don't absorb it any faster. You don't do that. I mean, yeah, bone broth is delicious, whether it like heals your gut. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't seen any, any, any papers on that. I'm trying to think of any, any other ones that, I mean, we hit sea oils. That's the one. That's probably the biggest one. Yeah, that's the biggest one that comes out. Let me, let me think for one second. And

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:36:25

and if you don't have one, I really want to know about the people don't know what we're talking about, the Ninja. Oh, yeah. So if you don't have any other myths, I want to just highlight something that I think is really awesome. The biggest myth that I always hear is you will get bulky if you lift weights or yo, yeah, I just stepped in, saved your life right now. And now we can You are so welcome the Ninja. When kids listen, kids are difficult. They go to school, and I'm you can protect them. You can eat really healthy at home, and they go to school, and my daughter comes home, mom, mom, the teacher gave me a sugar cookie. It was so good, and I got two marshmallows. And you don't want to be like, Hey girl, well, you should have said no, because the entire class gets right. And one of the things I love about what you guys do in your household is you're always looking for ways to improve the food composition of, say, ice cream. And so you went and you got this ninja, this ice cream maker ninja, which, by the way, as soon as I saw that, I, you know, I've just been on, like the Costco website, like, do I pull the trigger? Should I really get it? It's not cheap. But then again, I'm not so sure that a, you've been successful at making ice cream and two, I do think that if we were to round it out with there are healthy options, if we can just redefine what we believe is healthy and how we understand and navigate within our environment, that we can really make good choices. So how are you? Do you have any tips for parents at home, and did that ninja ice cream maker actually work? It

Nick Barringer: 1:38:02

works. It does work. Tips for Parents. And part of it is, is the reason why I got the ice cream maker is it's not just about controlling what's in the ice cream, which I really do like, because we did make, although I don't know if you were there, we didn't use it, but, you know, we made a simple chocolate ice cream using fair life, your daughter seemed to love, yeah, and she loved it like and consumed it. And so, so think about that. You know, if you're a parent, we didn't go to Baskin Robbins. We didn't go to, I took fair life, chocolate milk and blueberries. And my nieces and my daughter, like they crushed it and they loved it, but that's just one piece of it. The other piece that I find with like getting kids to eat and try things, is you get them involved.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:38:48

So that's a great idea. I never thought about that. The the,

Nick Barringer: 1:38:52

you know, the ninja you should get, like, Ninja in it, but it's, it's an experience. So when I get it out, my kids get excited. The nieces get excited. We hook it up. They're looking at it, you know, what do we put in it? And so it's kind of like a form of entertainment, and it's not cheap, but when you cost out, you know, take eight kids to Boston, Robbins, I have gets expensive, right? And so now I control a little less sugar. You do that a few times. It pays for itself, but also the experience that you get. And that's why I, like, I love to cook. That's why I was trying with, like, the the pizza oven. My

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:39:25

daughter loved it. She was like, Can we go to, can we go to Nixon? They make their pizza? Yeah, so

Nick Barringer: 1:39:30

I thought about that. It doesn't always, it doesn't always turn out right, but, but that's like with Sawyer. So my daughter, you know, she's had octopus she's had cow tongue, she's had all these things that ate that a lot of kids probably wouldn't eat, but why she had them and she found out whether she liked him or not, was she was involved in the process, and then same with Wolf, and get him in there. And so that's what I think like to parents, because I get get this question with people I work with a lot, is, because a lot of them have kids, I'm just like, You got to get them involved in the kitchen, which, by the way, it's gonna be like, twice or three. Times the mass four. Four times. Okay, yeah, I don't know if you saw much flour I had.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:40:10

I did so, so I thought Frosty the snow, but

Nick Barringer: 1:40:14

again, at the end of the day, like, like, it's part of like, experience with the kids and the parents, and then you find that, you know, they're willing to try more things, versus if you just have them sit there and you make it for me, you put in front of it, and they're like, I don't like that. Can I have this, you know, sort of thing?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:40:28

Dr Nick Beringer, I I love everything that you said, and I would say that I might even love that the most. What a great piece of advice. And we're gonna start doing

Nick Barringer: 1:40:40

that. Come over. I gotta. I gotta. You could, you could already, you guys are

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:40:44

clean on that side. Dr, Nick Beringer, I'm so grateful that you came and shared your knowledge with us. You know what I would love to do? I would love as controversies come up for us to do a regular, scheduled cadence, or we're on here, we're talking about some of the data. I think it would be really valuable. That would be awesome. Because I, you know, I'll just walk over, that's right, that's right. And is your website up and running yet? Oh, it

Nick Barringer: 1:41:09

should be. Dr. Nick barringer.com,

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:41:14

Amazing. Really excited to have you in the neighborhood, and

Nick Barringer: 1:41:19

we'll chat again soon. Awesome. Thank you so much. My pleasure being here. Big. Thanks

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: 1:41:23

to Dr Nick Beringer for breaking down the military's approach to peak performance. His insights are game changers for anyone looking to optimize strength endurance and recovery. Now I want to hear from you, what's one nutrition strategy from today's episode. You're going to try drop a comment below, and let's discuss. And if you found value in this conversation, hit the like button, subscribe and turn on notifications. We're bringing you more cutting edge insights from the world's top experts every week. Check the description for resources and links to Dr beringers research, and I'll see you in the next episode. You.